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Back then it was a BIG deal. The thing is that the SSJ form isn't something you can just achieve through training something Vegeta learned the heard way.
Specifically through the act of need and not desire. Technically, any Saiyan, no matter what their power level is, can became a SSJ in this regard.
It's just that no one knew how to properly obtain it since there was no guidelines for it. Goku and Vegeta only knew that one had to have intense enough emotion because that's how they did it.
And that's how they taught Gohan and Cabba. Cabba tried doing to same thing with Caulifa, but it wasn't going well. So he told her how it felt to go into the form on a regular basis, which was focusing your energy at a single point and exploding it outward.
That would be the true way of releasing one's SSJ power. Basically, Cabba figured out the perfect method and Caulifa was talented enough to make it work.
I know people who a bit angry over how easily they did it, but in story context it makes sense.
The SSJ form is not a new thing anymore. They had more info on it than they did back in the day. Hell, Goten and Trunks managed to reduce it to a child's plaything, as Vegeta would put it.
I find it eery that at one point in my young teenage years I was in a terrible way emotionally. Could be because of the Anahata near the heart and Manipura near the solar plexus Chakras along the spine in Hinduism.
The Anahata is associated with balance, calmness, and serenity. The Manipura is associated with energy, willpower, and achievement ironically this is also associated with the power of transformation.
Thanks for the info! Given some quick reading, i'd say it was the Anahata. I get what you mean.
I think they're really trying to push Super Saiyan Blue to be the new thing. Super Saiyan exists, but it's now nothing compared to the power of a God.
Cabba shares a closer personality to Gohan imo, while Caulifla is a less moronic version of Goku. Cabba is basically Vegeta without the constant chip on his shoulder.
Caulifa is basically Goku who actually uses her head. Kale will probably be the Gohan of the trio. That would be nonsensical.
Rose is a variation of blue, and was the result of combining a god's soul with a saiyan body. I hate double standards so much.
What do you expect them to look like? Personally i think their muscles should be so big they block their own faces but it was actually mentioned that they actively seek smaller muscles so they can go faster.
Thus the manly physique WHICH btw is not attractive to every girl in the planet, just like how cauliflowa isnt attractive to every man on the planet heck she looks like a kid so i really think your argument is crap.
The only excuse why the universe 6 saiyans are twigs is because some artist on the team has a fantasy about it.
On one hand, they're both characters that feature a tradionally attractive body by modern Western standards, making them typical hero material.
On the other, Cauli fits perfectly with the U6 Saiyan style of being more slender, less defined, and honestly a bit more toony.
I always find these kinds of arguments a bit silly tbh; similar arguments could be made for different scenarios. Why did they have to make Caulifla so ugly?
We finally get a strong female Saiyan, but everyone knows girls can't be strong and pretty, right? That's obviously a strawman argument, but I feel like you can take a close look at nearly any aspect of the show through a lens like that and find something.
Conversely, one could argue Caulifla is an amazingly strong woman, having transcended typical Saiyan gender roles and being a fiercesome leader to a whole entire gang!
The only excuse why the universe 6 saiyans are twigs is because some artist on the team [decided on this art choice for them]. I get that; apologies if I came off a bit annoyed there.
But while I do understand the sentiment I feel it would only make sense for U7 saiyans. Imo Cabba looks even leaner and "wimpier" than Cauli, so in my mind it's purely just a matter of art style.
That would point to them, over countless generations, using energy techniques to condense their muscles. However without the knowledge of super sayian among any of them-something tells me that they wouldn't have gone that far.
Sure their base forms are naturally stronger than let's say, super sayian goku on namek, but that just makes things even more half assed by suggesting that these twigs are naturally gifted from birth.
It's plain and simple, some guy on the art team had an idea and ran with it. Knowledge of the SSJ form wouldn't be the only thing that would make them excessively strong.
They're also they're Zankai power-ups, and even the true potential of a Saiyan's power. Something that the U7 Saiyans didn't realize until their destruction.
Vegeta only figured it out after his battle with Goku most likely because it's rare for the proud and arrogant Saiyans to retreat from a battle.
I said a while ago it'd be sick if they just used Frieza since he's stronger than mostly anyone but didn't think they would since Buu has been all over the intro and stuff.
Its a shame they're using the same fucking gag again and we get stuck with Roshi. Its going to be interesting seeing Frost react to Frieza's power.
At least we saw Buu in the preliminaries. I guess they opted for Frieza since Frost was gonna be on the U6 team.
I'm heavily betting that every memeber is going to have a counterpart. Yeah I've always thought a U6 Majin would be cool. Yeah I really don't know who U6 will be fighting since the intro highlights Vegeta vs the fat lady and Goku vs Jirren think I got the name wrong.
Bravo to whoever predicted that Frieza would join the team on last week's thread. I'm so excited for this tournament. Geakdom was always making videos about why frieza should jlin in the ToP, the guy must be very happy.
Still say Cell should be in this he does have the most potential. But then it'll make all the other members pointless since he has their techniques and abilities.
Makes sense Toriyama designed the characters for Chrono Trigger. Broccoli and Kale are good for your health. For those who don't get the last one.
Actually, I was referring to Gine Goku's mother. Her name is a pun for Spring Onion Negi in Japanese. Is anyone else getting a Broly vibe from Caulifla?
Obviously there are big differences but something about her character design, personality, and the ease at which she attained ssj just reminded me of Broly and I wondered if this was their way of paying homage to the character.
Maybe just me, anyhow I want to see a lot more of her story; I can get over the 'back tingles' because she seems like she could be a really interesting character going forward.
Broly had like a blue super Saiyan form though. Also, Broly was shy, and Caulifla has shown she is a big tough tribal leader.
I take Broly's personality to be how he was after the circlet broke and he unleashed his full power. Oh, I don't watch the NEP to try and save some surprises for the next episode.
I was just basing it on what we've seen in the episode. I find it somewhat bothersome that people are saying Caulifla's obtainment of Super Saiyan is worse than Goten and Trunks.
Goten and Trunks just did it with no explanation and didn't think much about it. At least with Caulifla there's an in show explanation.
I will accept the prodigy argument. That being said, in the NEP, it looks like caulifa is ssj2, which seems a little bit ridiculous to me.
My only problem with them going SS is the way that it's presented - a "technique" you learn like a kamehameha.
Maybe it's a small difference but I don't think of SS of a skill as much of a transformation you trigger into a higher being after first reaching a minimum strength level and then you can kind of master it later.
Just teaching it to someone like you would a flying kick cheapens it, imo. They already evolved differently - the lack of tails being one.
The scrawny look probably indicates that these Saiyan versions are more 'optimised' in terms of their physique and are able to achieve SSJ easier for being more in tuned with ki?
My issue is that they don't even know that ssj2 is a thing. Sure, cabba knows that there are levels beyond ssj, since he saw vegeta as a ssj blue, but he has never seen a ssj2.
For them to transform into ssj2, they just have to sort of randomly discover it within an hour or so of transforming into a ssj for the first time.
I am excited for my ssjs and I think that this will ultimately make for a more interesting tournament but the writing seems lazy and it really delegitimizes the struggle that the z warriors went through during the frieza and cell sagas.
That would have made much more sense. But discovering ssj2 in a few hours is so rushed. Absolutely love that Caulifa just brute forced herself into the super saiyan transformation, feels like it fits her character.
No intense anger, just her forcing herself into it. Come on! Why would that possibly be a good idea? Why didn't Goku choose Pikon or someone instead?
Since he can just pop over to the afterlife to get whoever he wants. Ohh I don't know. Pikon isn't Canon maybe? Even though super is a continuation of Z it's following the Canon manga not the show.
Pikon wasn't in the actual manga. Pikkon was also just a substitute for piccolo while Goku was in the other world. Oh I don't know maybe because Golden Frieza is stronger than ssb was when it first was made.
Literally they said he would be stronger if he hadn't rushed so much. Since then, we've been through two arcs with massive amounts of training and Zenkai boosts, whereas Freeza has had no choice but to be stagnant in Hell, unable to train or improve.
He's been training, it doesn't look like it, but all of that hell is definietely doing a number on him.
He's probably been fighting to try and get out of that thing as hard as he can, slowly becoming stronger.
Yeah but that golden form drained his power rapidly, and I doubt he trained at all in hell. And anyway it's not about his power. Frieza is evil.
He hates Goku. I wouldn't be surprised if he lets the universe get erased. Why wouldn't he train in hell, he probably will have mastered it by now.
Also just wait and see, Frieza is evil and hates Goku but I think he will be forced into doing it.
Beerus can just throw him into the ring and he will be forced to. It's a stupid idea though, I was really looking forward to seeing what skinny Buu could do.
I'd rather have buu also but we see that frieza is in things for personal gain all the time frieza would not let the universe be destroyed because he losses his life in that exchange also.
Yeah I was super excited for skinny Buu too, that's another reason I'm so upset about Frieza. I doubt Buu will be replaced, Frieza would be in the intro if he was gonna end up being part of the team.
Buu isn't all that prominent in the OP though, so it could be a facade, with the OP edited later on to add in Freeza. I don't know that they will, per say, but it's not an impossibility.
It would be really cool if they ever made the form of "the legendary super saiyan" reachable to access. Like a new power up.
Since if is the pinnacle of ki power from the saiyan race. I doubt goku at his current power level could beat broly or the new legendary ss.
I'm wondering if Vegeta,Goku and Gohan will all end up with new different transformations by the end of the tournament.
Goku with a limit breaker or ultimate kaio ken , Vegeta with a super sayian blue 2, and Gohan potentially with his new form.
They've both voiced shy female characters before, though. I loved the heroic music when Satan said he was going to enter and how it slowly transitioned to sounding like a broken record player.
Nice touch lol. Satan is one of my favorite characters because he's become a lovable oaf. He finally realizes he isn't shit but at the same time, still one of the 5 strongest humans behind Krillin, Tien?
He's perfect comic relief and has been a favorite since the Buu Saga, where he really did prove he's Earth's savior by befriending Fat Buu and inspiring the populace to add their energy to the Spirit Bomb.
Even Super Buu didn't kill him in the human extinction wave, dude's fucking invincible. If Frieza comes back, it will have given a purpose to his movie, and I honestly couldn't be more excited!!
I think he'll always remain evil, and he'll probably get sent back to hell, but I will be livid if they go back on this plot idea and just cock teased us; Buu after all is in the intro, and could wake up at the last second.
I'm glad you see it from a perspective others are choosing to ignore. At least there was some foundation for this set-up.
Yup, it would have been rather dumb if he was just thrown in without any build up; not to mention he would have been horrifically weak.
A lot of Super coming to think of it now has used pretty good with build up, planning way ahead of time for plot points and major build up; like this entire universe tournament since Champa vs Beerus, lol.
Buu after all is in the intro Reminds me of nin nin shinobuden. In the opening there was a lot of cool scenes with the protagonists fighting their evil doppelgangers, but it never happened in the show and the evil doppelgangers never existed.
Same for madoka's opening. Lot of magical girl usual comedy scenes, but the show itself was totally different in every aspect. The thing I'm most excited about once the tournament starts is not seeing the CG stage being assembled again.
As reused as it was I always thought it was a nice touch to keep showing us the creation of the stage that will no doubt be destroyed.
Krillin and 18 wanting to drop out even knowing the stakes of the tournament was really dumb and out of character.
Is like, oh ok. Well, that's because in a strange twist of fate, Goku befriending Zeno and requesting the tournament of power actually has given them control over their fate, which OP's post is ultimately off about.
Krillin and 18 refusing to participate reflects that choice of fight or accept your fate. Yeah, compare to Krillin vs Super Buu where he was willing to throw down his life for an opportunity for his friends and family to escape in my favourite quote of dbz, "I may be incredibly weak compared to him but if I stand and do nothing, my friends will die" This episode shits on that.
This episode shits on dragon ball in general. Super Saiyan is just a back tingly feeling apparently now.
Also apparently Goten and Trunks don't exist and Goku's first thought is to invite his greatest enemy instead. They could have been better fighters if they trained them EVER during the series particularly in the time chamber but the plot aka Chichi always shows up to interrupt them.
All the 'skill' in the world doesn't mean shit if you have a power level of a few thousand. The speed and strength of any universal-tier warriors aught to be greater than Roshi can even follow to perform any of his skills on.
There's nothing stopping say, Cabba from flying in and flicking Roshi off the edge. He's a liability. I agree with you but power levels don't mean shit anymore in Super, even if they should.
What will probably happen with Roshi is he'll be shown in multiple fights moving super fast, hand to hand combat with some average warrior from another universe for a little while and the writers will just pretend any difference in power doesn't exist no matter who he's fighting.
The ways things are going it wouldn't surprise me if Roshi fought Toppo for a minute evenly before the guy got "serious".
Finally someone who understands. It's not that I don't get what they're trying to do with the ToP, but some things really stretch my sense of believability.